Boy, are you going to get the hate mail.

Slamming Rick Warren and Joel Osteen in the same blog.

I was more worried about questioning Oprah.

Thanks for the background Jason, I kind of wondered where this guy Warren came from, and now I know.

Dan Matthews

Wow. This might be the most typical ABH post of all time.

It's also flat out hate speech. To term Rick Warren’s perspective on Christianity as “…palatable, spoon-fed, strip-mall religion lapped up by modern flocks” is ignorant, ill informed and not unexpected from a paper with a long history of bashing Christians.

Rick Warren and his church have brought many important and progressive political views into a light that plenty of Christians would have otherwise eschewed because of the God hating tradition that oozes from liberal politics, a situation you have so perfectly demonstrated. Rick Warren told people that it is a religious duty to care about the environment because what we do to the environment hurts the vulnerable in a disproportionate way. Rick Warren leads massive global efforts against poverty and disease.

Of course, you don’t chastise the flock of intellectual powerhouse celebrities who weigh in on politics. What about the brilliance of smoldering rockers like bono, whose tanked RED campaign actually costs more to promote than the money it raised. Where are you heaping the muck of these self-righteous assess? Simple, they’re not Christians and you prefer bashing Christians.

Rick Warren put together a group of people and questions that he felt would help uncover issues, feeling and the genuine thinking of the candidates. You ridicule him and insult his beliefs because you thrive on the very partisan views that this event was created in opposition to.

In the Bible there was a group of equally pompous Asses who, upon see Jesus heal a man, said that he had healed him with the help of a demon. Their eyes were blinded and their ears could not hear because their hearts were hardened.

So tell everyone. You say Warren ministry is "…palatable, spoon-fed, strip-mall religion lapped up by modern flocks." What are you basing this on? Have you read any of his books? Or is this more aimless bashing of anyone who has faith.

Actually, Bono IS a Christian, and the obvious reason he's not talking about Bono and the RED campaign is because they aren't running for president weren't grilled on national tv just this weekend.

I didn't say Bono wasn't and Warren isn't running for President either. The accusation is that Warren is manipulating the situation for some sort of personal gain which is very true of Bono's masked attempts to further his celebrity with a failed celebration of his own benevolence.
This is Christian bashing for the sake of bashing Christians. It is a direct attack on the beliefs of Warren and those who agree with his views, irrespective of any facts. Has Warren received any payment for this? He gives most of the proceeds from his books to charity, so what is this personal gain that you claim he is after?

Or are you just aimlessly pissing in the wind again?

I think Bono IS in fact quite the laughingstock these days for the reasons you name.

I'm with you that too much Christian-bashing goes on--I think it's disrespectful to openly mock anyone's faith, the majority's included. But I really don't think what Jason wrote falls into this category, I honestly don't. "Christian" and "Corporate Megachurch Author Preacher" aren't synonymous in my mind. He doesn't mock the faith, he mocks the man. And he has every right to do so! I think you're willfully misinterpreting what "hate speech" is to prove a point. Jason is degrading Rick Warren the man, based on his individual behavior.

And what is that individual behavior? Did Warren use the forum to promote his church or his book or himself. No. All he did was infer that people of faith have opinions about politics and that just maybe, the partisan jaded cynics that make up the majority of the press don't always ask the questions that voters want to know.

Warren asked which of the Supreme Court Justices would the candidates not have appoint. That is a completely valid question that leaves little room for dodging and few journalist would have the guts to ask it. Perhaps these little newspaper people's tirades against Warren are sour grapes since he held a forum that got to the heart of the differences between candidates without the constant divisive spinning that the press loves to do.

Eh, I didn't even watch that dog and pony show. I'm only commenting on Jason's editorial and defending it against your accusations that it's hate speech. You make many valid points about the broader issues, but so does Jason.

And what exactly is a "Corporate Megachurch Author Preacher". Plenty of Churches are corporations for tax, borrowing and liability reasons and that's hardly some strike against them. Most lawyers, farmers and chiropractors are coporations as well and I don't think that makes them part of some evil conglomerate either. And I don't understand why a Church's size should have anything to do with its credibility or the implied truthfulness of its message. If Warren writes a book, why should that be used to impugn his character based on simply him being an author? If you have something from his book you would like to attack, by all means offer your proof. but if you can only attack him because he has written a book, that is very weak.

Thanks for the defense, kleache, but understand this is one of those points where JS goes one way and I go the other. I trust The Lord, but it’s his folks down here I have trouble trusting fully. Not picking on JC, just picking on Rick Warren and Co. Big, big difference.

As a fundamental truth, you should always question the messenger – be it newspaperman or prophet.

JS sees the faith glass as half full, that those not only doing works in the name of The Lord, but using them as a marketing tool, have honorable intention from the outset. That’s fine. I think it’s a tad gullible, but given my family believes the same way, I have no problems with the people who believe that way.

I see the faith glass as half empty, that those doing said works should be questioned at every turn because the divine on Earth, well, let’s just say they are very, very difficult to find.

But I do know we both see that glass as containing wine. And that’s where we will always agree.

Don’t worry about JS. He gets a little passionate and comes off meaner than he really is. Although his hatin' on Marquee makes me think his band got panned sometime back in the 1980s and he never let go.

And doesn't the banner herald take up a collection every holiday and then run stories to praise their own benevolence under the banner "the empty stocking fund". Don't even get me started on "Make Kids count".

You might want to rethink which one of us works in the name of The Lord and uses it as a marketing tool

They asked for nothing but to have their questions heard. Just because they have faith does not always mean they have some dastardly plot. If they have some sort of aim beyond helping return civility and actual substance to the debate, then please state it now.

Otherwise this just seems like yet another chance to kick a Christian simply for being a Christian.

Does anyone actually know where the initiative for this forum came from? In order for it to be self-serving on Warren's part, it would seem that his people (I'm sure that he has people) would have had to approach CNN with the idea. On the other hand, it seems just as likely that someone at CNN had the bright idea that, given the amount of debate about how much of the evangelical vote Obama can gain, it might be interesting to have a prominent evangelical host a forum with both candidates. Then, as they thought about who would be a good host for such a forum, Rick Warren seemed like the obvious choice. Now, I have no idea how it actually went down, but it seems to me that there is an assumption of self-serving without any evidence.

Also, while I am no fan of Warren's, please don't lump him together with Hagee and Osteen....Nobody has done more to move evangelical voters beyond the single issue of abortion and to raise awareness among them that they really should care about AIDS, the environment, and poverty since Jesus would have cared about them too. And, in doing so, I think he may have opened the door for Democrats to make some in-roads in the evangelical community. This is especially true for young evangelicals.

My two cents...

DUDE! I don't have to put anything where my mouth is because I was only ever commenting on the content of this stupid blog entry (which I definitely wish I hadn't done at this point) Please go back and find me ONE EXAMPLE of where I personally commented on Rick Warren. All I know about him is that he is the preacher of a megachurch and an extremely successful and famous author. If you're taking those to be insults, that's on you. I am defending Jason's right to impugn Rick Warren's behavior without being called a bigoted Christian-basher.

Stop being so rude and bossy just because people disagree with you. And respond to what people are actually writing, not what you're jerking knee tells you they are.

1) social club/mega church
2) palatable, spoon-fed, strip-mall religion
3) using The Word to elevate their own standing
4) This was set up for America to get to know Rick Warren
5) how’s this going to look when Warren’s inevitable sex scandal arises?
6) Horton wasn’t the only one to question Warren’s intelligence
7) willingly hand over our political process to celebrities like Rick Warren
8) this Purpose-Driven Debate certainly served its one and only purpose: Rick Warren

Half of this is just plain insults and the other half is speculation. I am defending a man who is being attacked because of his beliefs that I share.

And read your own posts before you accuse others of being bossy.

Had it been a walkable, new urbanism, mixed-use with sustainable agriculture church would that have changed your view of the whole situation.

Nothing I say or write here will assuage any feelings of anguish, anger or betrayal on either side, so suffice to say: Yea God. Wars have been fought over less.

My CAPTCHA word is Eve so this is Eve Carson - who is in Heaven I am sure - looking down upon all this pettiness and bickering. We are all entitled to our viewpoints.

Did anyone else see Larry King last night? I fell asleep about three-quarters the way through.

Dan Matthews